Was it an “oversight” or “out-right fraud” ?
On my radio show I do my best to help as many people as I can with truthful and direct information that will hopefully help them get a better deal and feel better about the car buying experience. It's a calling of mine. Help people. And this helping hand is not limited to the consumer; I am also trying to lend a helping hand to the dealer - after all it is their reputations which are at stake. If I do my job well, I hope the consumers think that I'm on their side; and I want the dealers to think the same - my trick ... tell the truth. If the consumer is foolish - either help them or call them out. Same rule applies to the dealer.
And that is what happened today - but the dealer was the one who suffered my wrath!
A caller asked a question about the reliability of a CarFax report. After all, he had the dealer pull a CarFax multiple times while he was at the dealership to ensure that the vehicle he was purchasing had a clean vehicle history. (I'm sure you can tell where this is going ...) the consumer later discovered that the vehicle had $7,000 worth of repairs. Now the way the question was posed - "was the CarFax reliable?"
Wrong question!
I'm sure there are examples where CarFax has reported accidents and later had to correct their reports. I'm sure there are examples where a vehicle had an accident which did not appear on the CarFax. But I wanted to know how the consumer found out that the vehicle had $7,000 worth of repairs. For the only way to know that is to see the repair order. Did the dealer who sold the vehicle actually have a repair order for this repair? The answer was ... of course. They were the ones who repaired the vehicle and also the ones who pulled the CarFax multiple times to show the consumer that the vehicle had a clean vehicle history report.
I nearly blew my top! Why get upset with CarFax?? You're blaming the wrong person. What about the dealer??? Can they use the CarFax as a veil to conceal their service records??
What do you think?? Should I have given the dealer a pass? Maybe it was an oversight. Afterall, it's a large and reputable Toyota dealer. I'm sure they were well intentioned, right??
Did they live up to their "legal requirement" as a "merchant" ? Did they do what was reasonable??
Or do you think the dealer should have known better?
Maybe you think they not only knew better, but probably engage in worse activity?
Then, I ask, "What is the appropriate remedy?" Should the dealer take the vehicle back? Should the consumer just keep it - does "buyer beware" appeal to you? Or maybe, the dealer should pay additional damages as a punitive lesson?
Some will say it's an oversight. And some will say it's out-right fraud. What do you think?
The law apparently provides that auto dealers are permitted to lie when selling a car. Personally, I think that if a dealer has material information about a car and the customers asks about it point-blank, there's no doubt that the dealer is morally obligated to share that information. The shame is that there's no legal obligation, as far as I know.
24/07/2010
Georgia Yankee, if a dealer misleads a consumer it is called a "deceptive business practice." It is illegal. It could also be called fraud, even a breach of contract - since the consumer could claim that the dealer's statement was a representation and that he relied upon it to his detriment. If a consumer asks no questions and the dealer remains silent - there is no legal obligation to discuss the prior damage (since this is a used car - there would be if it were new, GA has a statute protecting consumers relating to new cars).
24/07/2010
Adam
Great point. So what is it called when a consumer misleads a dealer? Or if a consumer misleads another consumer? Aren't people frauded all the time by private sellers who sell cars with known issues? What are the legal ramifications of a consumer trading a car with a known hidden issues that he has disguised?
Is the dealer allowed the same legal platform? Is remaining slient still considered lying? This article brings up some great points. I agree that one shouldn't rely 100% on just the Carfax. Asking for service records is great, but just because you ask doesn't always mean you will get them. Is a dealer required to give them to you if you ask?
26/07/2010
If the dealer relied upon CarFax for it's information then it should be in the clear. If it knew about the damage but did not report on it because it wasn't in the CarFax then they should be liable.
That said, the court would likely see things in favor of the consumer and the dealer should just take the car back.
26/07/2010
Erikka,
This is deception at it's finest. To be silent about something just because the other person does not ask is still a form of deception; lying. Why? Because it's based on the selfish idea of benefitting from someone else's ignorance. Unfortunately, this is, if not #1, one of the most prime strategies of business that run this country... Most obvious in healthcare, credit, law... It's everywhere! I believe in 'Buyer-Beware'... but not everyone thinks like you, me, or the next person who's learn by experience to arm themselves with knowledge and truth.
It takes individuals like Adam, who will go out their way to provide truth.
You know that old saying, "Kill'em all and let God sort them out"? Well, I say let Adam show up at a dealership in the middle of a sale and start speaking the truth to both the dealer and the consumer, and then walk away and let the situation play out.
26/07/2010
I have seen the automotive industry from the inside out. My brother sold cars for years. I can tell you that it is quite simple to mislead a person by not giving them all of the facts. It boils down to intent. Did the person intentionally withhold information? If so, why did they withhold the information? A lie of omission is still a lie. The damage is still the same. The person still bought a car with thousands of dollars. The dealer is responsible. Let me give you an example. Let's say a person gives a dealer two hold checks to cover a down payment but the person knows the checks won't be any good. Is the customer wrong? Well, the dealer will definitely take action against the consumer. Shouldn't the dealer be held to the same standard?
26/07/2010
If all dishonest car dealers/salespersons were honest and truthful the automobile industry would collaspe as it is known today. Their whole concept of sales is say whatever is needed to close he sale and to get the most money, no matter as to
legality as long as they can get away with it. A truthful salesperson would not last very long on the job. The laws are written to favor businesses and let the buyer beware.
01/08/2010